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Old 01-05-2012, 12:49 PM
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Default Obama Seeks to gut the Military

To spend on social programs. Smallest Navy since 1916.

Obama announces Pentagon budget cuts

SOURCE
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Old 01-05-2012, 3:53 PM
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Obama cuts defense to the bone, and then some
By Jennifer Rubin

President Obama is determined to have national security on the cheap. Or to put it more accurately, he is willing to pare back defense spending to dangerously low levels so he can keep spending like there’s no tomorrow on the domestic side.
SOURCE
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Old 01-05-2012, 4:08 PM
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I must say there was a lot of grumbling around work today - especially since I am employed by a defense contractor. There are a lot of cuts coming that may seem insignificant but has more of an impact on readiness than even the big ticket items. Many of us say there is 50-50 chance of unemployment by mid-year.
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Old 01-05-2012, 5:50 PM
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Originally Posted by David View Post
To spend on social programs. Smallest Navy since 1916.

Obama announces Pentagon budget cuts

SOURCE
Be honest David. Is the military 100% efficient? or are there unnecessary pork programs throughout? No pork weapons projects? No military spending that is there only because reps and senators benefit from wasteful programs and bases in their districts and states?

How many troops and bases do we need in Western Europe, for example?

Come on now. Is your attitude just knee jerk? Or are you unable to step up and admit that we are in a spending crisis and even military needs be examined?

.
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Old 01-05-2012, 7:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Bemused
Be honest David. Is the military 100% efficient?
Are you 100% efficient? You set an impossible standard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bemused
Or are you unable to step up and admit that we are in a spending crisis and even military needs be examined?
There is a difference between "examine" and "robbing Peter to pay Paul." Obama doesn't want to cut any green program to save the economy, he'd rather cut the military and lose the country.

Things like the F-22 should have never gotten off the ground. No doubt there is waste. They want to spend more money to replace things like KC-135's, KC-10's and like, which are still serviceable. The new tankers will not go faster or be stealth. So I see that as a waste. "Obsolete" planes like the C-130 are still in use because they do a better job than other planes and many jobs. We don't need a whole new design. Just replacement of useful planes.

Much of the waste is a lack of supervision by Congress. But that has created all the problems of DOE, EPA, NRLB and more, plus new ones now in their infancy. Congress abdicates it Constitutional authority and responsibility to make laws.

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Originally Posted by Fox
What is going to be the affect of putting 500,000 people back into the job market?
While it makes a good talking point, the reality is the long term damage will be substantially more as they cost several times more being deployed as being unemployed.

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Originally Posted by Fox
Remember it was military spending that ended the great depression and set up the post war economic expansion.
A short sighted assumption. That's like Clinton being responsible for the great economy he presided over. I would give more credit to the Republican Congress he got stuck with, the momentum left over from the Reagan era, and the computer/Internet boom which happened in spite of Clinton. While WWII gave people a reason, the momentum with proper management repaired the economy. The war created an infrastructure that when the war ended, found profitable things to make when war goods were no longer needed. We have that potential now. But as long as government is trying to suck every bit of profit out of every business, we won't get a recovery.
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Old 01-05-2012, 6:41 PM
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No, it is not a knee jerk reaction.

Government is inefficient and should be limited to those areas that are absolutely necessary. National defense is a necessity. Gutting the military to waste money on Obama care and the alphabet soup of domestic government agencies is definitely a step in the wrong direction.

After 9/11 we should know that failure to address foreign policy and national defense can have profound impact on the world economy. Not only that, the defense industry has developed many technologies that have been adapted for civilian application so even wasteful spending at least helps keep America strong. And lets face it, our industrial sector is already receding so gutting the defense industry is one of the worst things we can do.

What is going to be the affect of putting 500,000 people back into the job market? This is poor policy and bad for the nation. Remember it was military spending that ended the great depression and set up the post war economic expansion.

My definition of a conservative is one who believes in limited federal government, equality in the eyes of the law, and a strong national defense.
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Old 01-05-2012, 7:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Fox View Post
No, it is not a knee jerk reaction.

Government is inefficient and should be limited to those areas that are absolutely necessary. National defense is a necessity. Gutting the military to waste money on Obama care and the alphabet soup of domestic government agencies is definitely a step in the wrong direction.

After 9/11 we should know that failure to address foreign policy and national defense can have profound impact on the world economy. Not only that, the defense industry has developed many technologies that have been adapted for civilian application so even wasteful spending at least helps keep America strong. And lets face it, our industrial sector is already receding so gutting the defense industry is one of the worst things we can do.

What is going to be the affect of putting 500,000 people back into the job market? This is poor policy and bad for the nation. Remember it was military spending that ended the great depression and set up the post war economic expansion.

My definition of a conservative is one who believes in limited federal government, equality in the eyes of the law, and a strong national defense.
So the miltiary shoud get EVERTHING they ask for? Because we all know that bureaucracies NEVER ask for anything they dont need.....

Right?

.
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Old 01-05-2012, 7:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Bemused
So the miltiary shoud get EVERTHING they ask for? Because we all know that bureaucracies NEVER ask for anything they dont need.....

Right?
So "EVERTHING" or "nothing" are the only choices your talking points allow?
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Old 01-05-2012, 8:00 PM
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Really, you would rather people unemployed sitting on their butts becoming more dependent on the government than advancing the cause of civilization around the world? I fail to see how that qualifies as long term thinking. The military buildup in the 80s created the peace dividend in the 90s that allowed the budget surpluses and the development of the internet which created a whole new industry.

Defense spending creates jobs, new technologies, and a stronger nation that is capable of advancing the cause of civilization. What will all the doles get us? More government dependency. More green energy failures and corruption. More payoffs to trial lawyers, community organizers, union goons, more bureaucrats and other leaches on the productive class. In the end, it just takes us a step closer to the end of a free society and American decline.
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Old 01-05-2012, 8:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Fox View Post
Really, you would rather people unemployed sitting on their butts becoming more dependent on the government than advancing the cause of civilization around the world? I fail to see how that qualifies as long term thinking. The military buildup in the 80s created the peace dividend in the 90s that allowed the budget surpluses and the development of the internet which created a whole new industry.

Defense spending creates jobs, new technologies, and a stronger nation that is capable of advancing the cause of civilization. What will all the doles get us? More government dependency. More green energy failures and corruption. More payoffs to trial lawyers, community organizers, union goons, more bureaucrats and other leaches on the productive class. In the end, it just takes us a step closer to the end of a free society and American decline.
so does government spending on school programs...

come on now...... what do your principals dictate?

.
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Old 01-05-2012, 8:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Fox
Really, you would rather people unemployed sitting on their butts becoming more dependent on the government than advancing the cause of civilization around the world? I fail to see how that qualifies as long term thinking.
Where's the money come from to pay for all that. I agree, if their deployment is necessary. The cost is the downside of war.

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Originally Posted by Fox
The military buildup in the 80s created the peace dividend in the 90s that allowed the budget surpluses and the development of the internet which created a whole new industry.
So that's how Reagan did it? Starting a war?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
Defense spending creates jobs, new technologies, and a stronger nation that is capable of advancing the cause of civilization.
Well then DPRK should be number one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
What will all the doles get us? More government dependency. More green energy failures and corruption. More payoffs to trial lawyers, community organizers, union goons, more bureaucrats and other leaches on the productive class. In the end, it just takes us a step closer to the end of a free society and American decline.
Obviously, it's not just one thing that needs to be fixed.
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Old 01-06-2012, 7:24 AM
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How about we assess what we need and compare that with what we have?

Along the way, cut out the waste. I'd be willing to bet that we can make some cuts without endangering our national defense.

The difference between my approach and Obama's is that he just doesn't see the value of having a very strong national defense.
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Old 01-05-2012, 8:01 PM
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So with unemployment high as it is, jobs in the military will now be less of an option now? Great stuff Jobs President. Moron.
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Old 01-06-2012, 11:25 AM
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I'm shocked anyone is surprised by this. We're now China's bitch.

Farewell Taiwan, we hardly new ye.
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Old 01-06-2012, 12:18 PM
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I'm shocked anyone is surprised by this. We're now China's bitch.

Farewell Taiwan, we hardly new ye.
And then the next GOP President will have to build it up again and get labeled as a "hawk" and "big spender".

Lather, rinse, repeat.
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Old 01-07-2012, 9:38 AM
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And then the next GOP President will have to build it up again and get labeled as a "hawk" and "big spender".

Lather, rinse, repeat.
So there are no efficiencies to be gained through modern technologies? The paper chase is perfect?

As a sage once said, think different!

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Old 01-07-2012, 9:31 AM
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I'm shocked anyone is surprised by this. We're now China's bitch.

Farewell Taiwan, we hardly new ye.
we've been China's "bitch" for ten years now. Whose money did you think financed the mortgage bubble?

.
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Old 01-09-2012, 7:29 PM
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Obama guts military but gives raises to bureaucrats

Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://washingtonexaminer.com/opinio...#ixzz1j1D7noT1
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Old 01-06-2012, 4:53 PM
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In spite of my background, I am the first to admit to having seen more than my fair share of pure WASTE in the military.....I just made sure that MY troops and myself weren't responsible for generating waste. Turning back funds at the end of the fiscal year was not out of character for me (even though my superiors made sure my turnback funds were "reassigned" so they could be spent/wasted by some other department.

This action by Obummer is more about an "in your face" to us right-thinking Americans, as he really feels like he doesn't have a dog in this fight......I think he sees the handwriting on the wall for November but his arrogance and narcissism won't let him deviate from continuing to be anything but smug and carefree for the rest of his term.

All in all, we've been through a tough 3 years with this joker and, besides having much sympathy for all of us, all I can say to my delusional friends and acquaintances is: I TOLD YOU SO.
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Old 01-06-2012, 8:05 PM
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Most waste comes from Congress critters keeping obsolete programs, bases, etc in their districts. There is a lot of waste in program offices as they have to justify the programs. Any bureaucracy that wants to exist seeks justification that is seldom critically reviewed. Some would like to blame contractors but quite frankly they simply bid to jobs that are out there. But when you get to the troop levels, it is rarely the place to look for waste.
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