Mammon: the real God of Conservatives and Sarah Palin

[Irish flu]

Matthew 6:24
No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Gov. Palin recently celebrated the defeat of a bill in Alaska that would have banned major industrial developments in the vicinity of headwaters of streams valuable for salmon habitat. An old high school bud who lives outside of Juneau and who has fished in Alaksa since the mid 70s hipped me to the story:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...n=003 &sc=227

http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/29/sa...ing-interests/

The second site has numerous other video links with the posted link. I’ve never seen it done quite like that.

As the article points out, the salmon industry very likely accounts for greater income than the mining industry, which would have been adversely affected had the bill passed. I don’t get it, but conservatives in the “dig it up, cut it down, pave it over” crowd apparently have less respect for income derived from the natural, living world than they do for income derived from large-scale degradation of the natural world, digging up and exploiting the natural, dead world.

One of the largest open pit mines in history.

Wild salmon are facing serious decline and could very well be functionally extinct at some point in this century. Farmed salmon are a weak substitute and an ecological disaster to boot. The Alaskan fisheries are among the most healthy on the planet, yet a majority of the state, 57%, voted in favor of mining and against protecting the health of one of Alaska’s Crown Jewel watersheds which drains into Bristol Bay in Southwest Alaska.

Mining interests in opposition to the bill vastly outspent their fishing industry opponents, with a $14 million adverstising budget in a state with fewer people than Brooklyn. That's pretty much standard for the mining industry, where wealth is focused much more narrowly than among fishermen.

Another large gold mine is poised to begin in North Central Washington state where mining interests have dipped into their deep pockets for about 20 years to ramrod the thing past opponents.

In both cases, income from mining is projected to last around 20 to 30 years. Income from fisheries and agriculture could last far longer, if allowed to remain healthy.

So come clean Repos and conservatives: it’s money ya’all worship, not the creator of natural world – a world abundant with life, though less and less so as it reels from the onslaught of starry-eyed industrialists.

[luknikfan]

Originally Posted by Irish flu

Matthew 6:24
No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Gov. Palin recently celebrated the defeat of a bill in Alaska that would have banned major industrial developments in the vicinity of headwaters of streams valuable for salmon habitat. An old high school bud who lives outside of Juneau and who has fished in Alaksa since the mid 70s hipped me to the story:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...n=003 &sc=227

http://firedoglake.com/2008/08/29/sa...ing-interests/

The second site has numerous other video links with the posted link. I’ve never seen it done quite like that.

As the article points out, the salmon industry very likely accounts for greater income than the mining industry, which would have been adversely affected had the bill passed. I don’t get it, but conservatives in the “dig it up, cut it down, pave it over” crowd apparently have less respect for income derived from the natural, living world than they do for income derived from large-scale degradation of the natural world, digging up and exploiting the natural, dead world.

One of the largest open pit mines in history.

Wild salmon are facing serious decline and could very well be functionally extinct at some point in this century. Farmed salmon are a weak substitute and an ecological disaster to boot. The Alaskan fisheries are among the most healthy on the planet, yet a majority of the state, 57%, voted in favor of mining and against protecting the health of one of Alaska’s Crown Jewel watersheds which drains into Bristol Bay in Southwest Alaska.

Mining interests in opposition to the bill vastly outspent their fishing industry opponents, with a $14 million adverstising budget in a state with fewer people than Brooklyn. That's pretty much standard for the mining industry, where wealth is focused much more narrowly than among fishermen.

Another large gold mine is poised to begin in North Central Washington state where mining interests have dipped into their deep pockets for about 20 years to ramrod the thing past opponents.

In both cases, income from mining is projected to last around 20 to 30 years. Income from fisheries and agriculture could last far longer, if allowed to remain healthy.

So come clean Repos and conservatives: it’s money ya’all worship, not the creator of natural world – a world abundant with life, though less and less so as it reels from the onslaught of starry-eyed industrialists.

I agree the GOP is bought and sold, but so are the Dems. Including Obhama.

Nothing will change for the average American with either Obham or McCain. The standard of living will continue to slip, the middle class will continue to be destroyed. Free trade will continue as the mantra of government and you will not see Obhama or McCain come out against NAFTA or admit how it has destroyed American jobs.

The two-party system is not the answer. IMO of course.

[Irish flu]

I agree with you somewhat. I don't see Obama as my savior but I do think he has more fresh ideas than McCain. NAFTA is a problem, no great society can endure if it depends on a once hostile nation a several thousand miles away for most of its production. Just weird, all in all.

And more and more, shipping goods across that vast ocean will a greater portion of the cost of the item. We need to somehow revive manufacturing in our nation. Can you imagine trying to tool up for the challenge we faced in '41 with the sort of outsourced production we now have?

[Rafael]

Originally Posted by Irish flu

I agree with you somewhat. I don't see Obama as my savior but I do think he has more fresh ideas than McCain. NAFTA is a problem, no great society can endure if it depends on a once hostile nation a several thousand miles away for most of its production. Just weird, all in all.

And more and more, shipping goods across that vast ocean will a greater portion of the cost of the item. We need to somehow revive manufacturing in our nation. Can you imagine trying to tool up for the challenge we faced in '41 with the sort of outsourced production we now have?

You are so full of it! You don't know what you want.

[joe]

Irish said:

I don't see Obama as my savior but I do think he has more fresh ideas than McCain.

Due to his age and experience, McCain has been around long enough to know the "fresh ideas" from Obama have been around in one form or another before. Most of those "fresh ideas" are recycled.

I have mentioned before. Politicians need to operate the same as Nascar drivers. Walk around in clothing that advertises which corporations are giving them the most money.

[Osiris]

Oh this is really rich, "recycled ideas", as in how many others tried, but fell short. Thus are the "ideas" wrong, or was the approach wrong? conservatives seem to dismiss Obama for "recycled ideas". Freedom is one of those. Guess that we should dump it too. It's been recycled for the last 232 years. Conserves are nothing more than "recycled" fodder for their own. Once they dump the poor paying office they held, they run over to the coporations to lobby for them at higher pay.

[David]

Once again, I ask the continuing question. If Obama is about change where does he disagree with Carter, Mondale, Dukakis, Clinton, Gore or Kerry.

That speech the other night was just typical boilerplate lib nonsense. Combined with a healthy dose of class envy.

[joe]

David said:

If Obama is about change where does he disagree with Carter, Mondale, Dukakis, Clinton, Gore or Kerry.

Libs don't want to answer it. It's recycled ideas, but they are presented as "change".

[aammondd]

They want change ...


to their ideas of what America is. They want to change the fact that their ideas are failures by definition.

Whats the definition of insanity again?

[Osiris]

Oh well, you guy's want definitions? I could just as well give you mine, but would that actually be what Obama see's as definitons? Why don't you oh so glorious ask Obama?

[David]

What does that mean? There is no difference between Obama and the others. He just sells it differently.

[joe]

David,
Too many questions for liberals to answer.

[luknikfan]

Originally Posted by joe

David,
Too many questions for liberals to answer.

Joe, there is a third way you know. Neither liberal or conservative. Troubling to me so many don't see/get that. You will continue to be used until you break free from the straightjacket slot TPBT have put you into. IMO.

[Rafael]

Originally Posted by Osiris

Oh well, you guy's want definitions? I could just as well give you mine, but would that actually be what Obama see's as definitons? Why don't you oh so glorious ask Obama?

So you don't claim to support Obama?

[joe]

Luk,
I realize everything you say is your opinion. Not sure why you have proclaim it as such.

No straight jacket on me at this time. As a reminder, until a candidate earns my vote, I am not voting in November. However, I have eliminated Obama from consideration.

[Irish flu]

Originally Posted by joe

Irish said:


Due to his age and experience, McCain has been around long enough to know the "fresh ideas" from Obama have been around in one form or another before. Most of those "fresh ideas" are recycled.

I have mentioned before. Politicians need to operate the same as Nascar drivers. Walk around in clothing that advertises which corporations are giving them the most money.

McCain is the guy with tired ideas. He presumes that America is destined to be the conqueror, that God himself stands at our side, at all times, regardless.

Nothing in my study of the bible leads me to conclude that such absolute assurance of one's righteousness is wise. McCain's stubborn macho streak is even worse than Bush's, and that's saying something.

McCain is the fellow with major corporate backing. War makes some industries humongous bucks. McCain promises more war. I suspect Putin is at least partially correct, in alleging that Georgia, which employs a top McCain aide as a lobbyist, works in concert with the Republican party and it's goals.

[Irish flu]

Originally Posted by David

Once again, I ask the continuing question. If Obama is about change where does he disagree with Carter, Mondale, Dukakis, Clinton, Gore or Kerry.

That speech the other night was just typical boilerplate lib nonsense. Combined with a healthy dose of class envy.

I suppose the Europeans who later became the founding fathers of our land were engaged in class envy when they noted that the upper classes were so firmly entrenched that they (the peasants) would not have a fair opportunity at any sort of self-made prosperity unless they moved to that new world across the sea.

Carter is being proven right on his energy ideas and some liberal programs of the past -- the GI Bill and the CCC camps -- worked out very well, delivered good bang for buck.

[Irish flu]

Originally Posted by David

What does that mean? There is no difference between Obama and the others. He just sells it differently.

Is it any real surprise that there would be similarities? Obama strikes me as a more capable thinker and speaker than most of them, and that stuff definitely matters.

[Rafael]

Originally Posted by Irish flu

Is it any real surprise that there would be similarities? Obama strikes me as a more capable thinker and speaker than most of them, and that stuff definitely matters.

He thinks about transfering wealth. Perhaps you do too which makes this thread cockeyed.

[speaktothesky]

Originally Posted by Irish flu

Matthew 6:24
No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Very true, Your point however is not made.

Gov. Palin recently celebrated the defeat of a bill in Alaska that would have banned major industrial developments in the vicinity of headwaters of streams valuable for salmon habitat. An old high school bud who lives outside of Juneau and who has fished in Alaksa since the mid 70s hipped me to the story:

What does he propose should be done then?


So come clean Repos and conservatives: it’s money ya’all worship, not the creator of natural world – a world abundant with life, though less and less so as it reels from the onslaught of starry-eyed industrialists.

Sorry to say it, but you make a very valid point above.

IF "I agree with you somewhat. I don't see Obama as my savior but I do think he has more fresh ideas than McCain. (Solomon, way back in his day correctly stated nothing is new under the sun.NAFTA is a problem, no great society can endure if it depends on a once hostile nation a several thousand miles away for most of its production. Just weird, all in all. (Just remember Billy Boy signed that into law.)

And more and more, shipping goods across that vast ocean will a greater portion of the cost of the item. We need to somehow revive manufacturing in our nation. Can you imagine trying to tool up for the challenge we faced in '41 with the sort of outsourced production we now have?" The phrase "were screwed" comes to mind.

Old Ideas that work "Freedom" Osi, are worth keeping.
"new" Old ideas that have failed (socialism) are not worth trying again.
nuf' said.