The end of Football?

[David]

With the suicide to Junior Seau many are questioning the sport. Seau may have become depressed due to numerous concussions. I know this sounds remote. However, some are speculating that law suits and new regulations may bring down the game. Will Trial Lawyers bring down football? Rush is discussing this too.

[schaabdl]

Can see it coming. What I think we may see first is the development of a minor league system and the college game dwindling. One successful lawsuit and many institutions will be thinking pocketbook and liabilities vice pocketbook and paydays.

[FoundingFather]

Originally Posted by David

With the suicide to Junior Seau many are questioning the sport. Seau may have become depressed due to numerous concussions. I know this sounds remote. However, some are speculating that law suits and new regulations may bring down the game. Will Trial Lawyers bring down football? Rush is discussing this too.

That's like the 99% vs 1% argument.

End the military? Some of them commit suicide.

If any one group starts dropping lie flies, then it's worth seriously looking into.

[GeronL]

Very premature topic, we have NO clue why this happened.

[David]

Bengals' Bell retires, says Seau's suicide was factor

SOURCE

[Bemused]

Originally Posted by schaabdl

Can see it coming. What I think we may see first is the development of a minor league system and the college game dwindling. One successful lawsuit and many institutions will be thinking pocketbook and liabilities vice pocketbook and paydays.

Good. Professional sports has no place at an institution of higher learning. If the NFL wants a minor league, they should pay for it themselves, rather than living off the taxpayers. It's not lke they cant afford it.

You feel the love, schaabl, or do you think the taxpayer should continue to subsidize yet another business that pays its employees millions of dollars a year?

[schaabdl]

Bemused: On this I agree in that the professional sports should not benefit without costs the development phase of players. Baseball has had no problem with a minor league. Both the NFL and NBA benefit far too much from the the college sports. I don't know the mechanics but suppose we continue college sports as is but when a player is drafted and signs a contract with a professional team, then the professional team pays the institution a significant player development fee, maybe a percentage of the contract value so that high draft choices cost more than the low draft choices. This would be in lieu of a minor league.
I would probably disagree that taxpayers are actually footing much of the bill for the two major sports I mentioned. I don't have the data, but there is a lot of money that comes from private sponsorships (stadium names, uniforms, advertisement at most stadiums, and television contracts).
I would rather see a minor league but I am somewhat doubtful that this will happen any time soon. My thought on minor leagues coming is if the colleges start seeing lawsuits because of injuries and not wanting to deal with that and simply stop offering football.

[Bemused]

How about this idea.

The professional leagues lease or outright buy the particular facilities (including those special dorms where the athletes live).

The college students and regular folks in the area can still enjoy their favorite sports, the athletes can take classes at the college if they wish, and everybody's happy.

I have not seen real numbers. I have heard for years that football and basketball provide their universities enough money to subsidize all those pesky "minor" sports such as track, volleyball, tennis, golf, etc. The price of the leases could provide the same subsidies to those sports.

Not that any such reform would ever take place. Built into college sports is the largest special interest group out there.out there. Liberals, conservatives, libertarians, democrats, republicans, independents, black, white, (not sure how big the Hispanic interest is in American sports, but I suspect it is growing) and there ya go.

[BUngaro]

Not to mention the fact that American Style Football is a BRUTAL, UNDEMOCRATIC SPORT.

It's based on one player trying to hurt the other player as shown in the New Orleans Saints fiasco.

Undemocratic because the game is played MOSTLY by fat ass, uneducated, oversized individuals. An average size individual has little or no chance of playing in the NFL.

[nagash]

Brutal? Ha. I've seen the fights in the stands at your soccer games and football is tame by comparison. Not to mention the assasination of a Columbion player back in the late 80's or early 90's due to an own goal that let the US win that game.

Actually, the Saints are the exeption to the rule and they have been punished for it. Everyone agrees that what they were doing was wrong, and nobody else is playing that way.

If fat, uneducated, and oversized people are all that can play, then how do have runners and pass recepters? Oh, and don't forget the buy throwing the ball, and the guy that kicks the ball.
As far as the front line and defensive line goes, that's where you do need large guys for they are there to block, which you cannot do if you have no weight to throw around.

I actually like soccer, BU, and you won't see me saying anything bad about it unless a player does something shamefull or the crowd does something shamefull. It's called respect, and it's something you have yet to learn.

[Bemused]

Originally Posted by BUngaro

Not to mention the fact that American Style Football is a BRUTAL, UNDEMOCRATIC SPORT.

It's based on one player trying to hurt the other player as shown in the New Orleans Saints fiasco.

Undemocratic because the game is played MOSTLY by fat ass, uneducated, oversized individuals. An average size individual has little or no chance of playing in the NFL.

Well, I disagree with you and just about every facet of your analysis. Let me count the ways.

1) sport is NOT democratic nor is it supposed to be. It is about competition, winning, losing. The thrill of victory, the agony of defeat, to coin a phrase. In the individual competitions such as tennis or golf or track or cross country, it is ALL about the individual versus other individuals. In EVERY team sport, there are considerations of relative contribution. No American football team can succeed without a good offensive line, a good defense, and good special teams. The greatest sport there is (baseball) is ALL about the relative merits of each and every position, both on the field and in the lineup. Do you really want a team consisting entirely of A-Rods? Or Willies? Or Henrys? Or do you want a couple of guys who throw high heat but cant hit a lick?

2) (American) football is NOT about hurting other players. That view is the result of the brainwashing of the American public by the marine corp mentality of coaches over the last 60 years or so. I'd have to write a 20,000 word essay to explain that point, but suffice it to say that football in the purest sense is a wonderful game, a game of beauty and skill. I say that as someone who thinks football sadly reflects modern corporate values, as opposed to baseball, which positively reflects America and American values and American spirit.

3) As for your depiction of the participants, well that's what happens when you select according to what wins on the field. Which is why I believe that professional sports has NO place within our institutions of higher learning. Special privileges, special jobs, special classes, special dorms, special subsidies for those who play professional sports at our public universities. Betcha that EVERYONE on this particular blog site will hem and haw and make excuses as to why GOVERNMENT should continue to subsidize PROFESSIONAL sports. Except ME of course.

[BUngaro]

Nag and Muser,

I love my DEFAULT AMERICAN brothers and sisters. Unfortunately, the little over two hundred years of our history leaves you folks short on judgement, social consciance, political and economic awareness.

Back to football. Most of the players playing in the NFL would be in jail after every game for assult and battery in a civilized country. You can not attempt to intentionally disable or criple an opposition player and call it sport.

Yes it is BRUTAL and UNDEMOCRATIC. Annnnd it starts early in a childs life.
The varsity programs and the huge expenses that goes with it are way beyond our level of financial ability. We have huge Stadiums and Sports Arenas in every Podunk town. Most of those facilities go UNUSED other than the varsity programs. In cicvilized countries, schools are for learning and all sports facilities are open to all age groups.

How sad is it that our Olympic Champion Gal Soccer Team does not have a way to continue their playing in the USA because all the money is spent on school varsity programs and not on COMMUNITY sports activities.

Oh well, you folks will live and learn just like other countries have.

[schaabdl]

BU must really hate hockey!
Women soccer in the US has now failed twice with professional leagues and the MLS is quite frankly a joke compared to world class soccer. I doubt any of the teams would fair well in Bundesliga 2 or English Championship - none would be in the first tier.
And BS on the stadiums open to all in Europe - none of the major stadiums and many of the schools are closed and that is not a recent phenomena. Schools in Europe learned it costs to maintain facilities and none of the professional stadiums are simply opened.

[BUngaro]

Schaabdl,

Hockey used to be a civilized sport until it find it way to the USA. I hope that the USA will not do to soccer what it did to the Hockey. Once I went to a Boxing event in the MSG and a Hockey Game broke out. HAHAHAHAHA

While Camp Nue is open to the public as spectators, however every little town in Europe has a community Sport Club where children of all ages can participate in all kinds of sporting actiivities.

Annnnnd children attend school to learn and not to brutalize each other on the football field.

BTW, I like your new picture.

[nagash]

Judgement = you're guilty of being ignorant on way too many topics.

Social Conscience = I'm a loner. Deal with it.

Political = I try to stay down the middle on most issues although I have chosen sides on occassion.

Economic Awareness = I don't care about what the country feels. I care about what my paycheck, which i worked for, feels like.


Can't intentionally hurt someone and call it a sport? Anyone seen a boxing match recently? Martial Arts match?
As I said earlier, what the Saints did was wrong and they were punished for it. No other team is doing that nor did any other team want to do that.

It would be undemocratic to you as the players don't get to call the shots. Then again, name any team sport where the players get to truly call the shots.
In any team sport, individual efforts are made by players but all plays are for the benefit of the team, not the individual. The very nature of this leads to success, even though it is undemocratic in that an individual player cannot call his/her own plays.

The girls on the woman's soccer team are playing overseas. It's better than not being able to play at all. The league simply cannot survive over here. Soccer will never be able to compare itself to the basic four arena based sports (football, basketball, hockey, and baseball).

You went to a hockey game and boxing broke out? I saw a soccer game where a riot broke out. Just do yourself a favor and stop trying to say soccer is civilized. The game itself is questionable (I saw some really cheap shot fouls during the Olympics) and the people in the stands definitely aren't civilized.

Also, Bemused and I share the same opinion on sports in schools in that they shouldn't be there (at least on a college level for me). Money should not be tied to a sporting event before the pro level, IMHO. This keeps play fair and about the game, not about winning and the personal achievements of a player.
Alas, Vegas got its hands on college sports, and this is why so much money is being pumped into the system (lots to be made if you bet right).

[Orin]

Hockey used to be a civilized sport until it find it way to the USA.

I would hardly call anything with Scottish roots civilised. Haggis, bagpipes, whiskey....Ice hockey as we know it came from Scotland to Canada. The rules were codified at McGill university in 1875.

Hockey wasn't invented by on specific person or group.hockey is played with a stick. For hockey, however, it is generally accepted that Scottish settlers were the first to play it in Nova Scotia in the late 1700s. At this time there was mass emmigration into Canada of people from the Highlands of Scotland who imported many of their traditions, culture and pastimes. Ice Hockey became a Winter version of a game known as Shinty which has been played in the Highlands of Scotland for centuries

.

The rough, faster game in the US has more to do with smaller rinks than Evil American Capitalisms. Calgary is the only NHL team with Olympic size rink.

Another failed attempt at bashing the US.

Blame Canada.

Fighting has been a part of ice hockey since the sport's rise in popularity in 19th century Canada.[1] There are a number of theories behind the integration of fighting into the game, the most common of which being that the relative lack of rules in the early history of hockey encouraged physical intimidation and control.[1] Other theories include the poverty and high crime rates of rural Canada in the 19th century.[1] The implementation of some features, such as the blue lines in 1918, actually encouraged fighting due to the increased level of physical play. Creation of the blue lines allowed forward passing, but only in the neutral zone. Therefore, puck handlers played at close quarters and were subject to a great deal of physical play. The emergence of enforcers, who protected the puck handlers and fought when necessary, followed shortly thereafter.[8]

[BUngaro]

Orin,

Your PARANOIA keeps you from being objective. I made it clear that the USA can not be blamed for inventing hockey. However, Capitalism is clearly to blame for turning hockey into a brutal game. The Capitalists will do anything and tolerate anything to fill the seats.

In Europe those players who engage in fighting wouold be hauled off to jail.

[Bemused]

Originally Posted by BUngaro

Orin,

Your PARANOIA keeps you from being objective. I made it clear that the USA can not be blamed for inventing hockey. However, Capitalism is clearly to blame for turning hockey into a brutal game. The Capitalists will do anything and tolerate anything to fill the seats.

In Europe those players who engage in fighting wouold be hauled off to jail.

OK I was gonna step back and take it, but now that you chose to pursue your stupidity. I choose to respond.

1) I take personal offense at your statement "I love my DEFAULT AMERICAN brothers and sisters. Unfortunately, the little over two hundred years of our history leaves you folks short on judgement, social consciance, political and economic awareness."

Short on judgement? Short on social conscience? (turn on your spell checker) Short on other things?

2) schaabdl and rifleman repeatedly say that you, Bungo, are not fit to sleep with pigs. Fine way for you to treat me when I have defended you. Yes Bungo, I have told schaabdl and rifleman that you, Bungo, ARE TOO fit to sleep with pigs. Not once have I ever heard a pig complain about sleeping with you.

3) sorry that you are so stuck on your stupid ideology that you cannot have an intelligent conversation on the issues. There are many of us who did not make the football team yet still spend countless hours during weekends at the local park playing pickup games of touch and flag football. Despite my feelings about professional football (I believe it is a travesty) but I will never deny that football in its pure form s a beautiful game. So I will thank you to stop insulting me with your stupid accusations.

Regards

[Orin]

You didn't read my post in its entirety, Komrade. That's your problem.

[schaabdl]

Bemused - I have never said that to BU nor do I believe Rifle. I respect his right to be utterly wrong and post whatever he wants but he never defends beyond the sloganeering.