Fast & Furious

[Mad_Dog]

Pajama media has a good summery of this whole issue.

[FoundingFather]

Originally Posted by Mad_Dog

Pajama media has a good summery of this whole issue.

Very damning.

[David]

I bet there is a compromise reached next week before the House vote.

Everyone will be focused on Obamacare decision.

[dcannady]

Originally Posted by David

I bet there is a compromise reached next week before the House vote.

Everyone will be focused on Obamacare decision.

If there is compromise, then the Democrats win and equal treatment under the law is meaningless. We just had a baseball player go to trial for supposedly lying to Congress about using performance enhancing drugs. In this case, the AG and the President are lying about using the Federal government to provide guns to criminals at the cost of the lives of thousands of Mexicans and an American border agent. All for the purpose of creating a crisis on which they could pass gun restrictions and undermine the 2nd Amendment.

If they don't press this to it's ultimate conclusion, they are corrupt cowards and honor is dead.

[Mad_Dog]

We all saw what happened after the Clinton impeachment trial. The Senate Republicans rolled over and showed their yellow bellies. Result? A president who won re-election and was re-empowered by the cowardice of his opposition.

Impeachment of any high government official is unlikely for the next 50 years because of that. The checks-and-balances between the branches is weakened. Not good.

If there is strong pressure from the Depends gang to drop this issue... it might be better to drop it. Because it looks like Reed and pals will do everything in their power to run away from their responsibilities, again. And, sadly, if that's the case, it's better not to fight. Place the issue in murky abeyance. Better that, than to fail and set the precedent that the Attorney General can be a party hack, able to prosecute his political enemies at will.

Fast and Furious pisses me off. It damned well looks like Barack Hussein Obama is a co-conspirator to mass murder. Horrible. But if these twits in the Republican party aren't going to push this investigation through, to appoint a special council (and if there was ever a need for one of those, this is it), if they aren't going to do what is needed... then it's better if they did nothing. Sadly.

[Rifleman]

When is it simply up to Republicans? Republicans were compalcwnt regarding Bush ans McCain and all the Dims trying to pass "Comprehensive Immigration Reform", which would ave granted Amnesty without securing the border and without adequate checks to insure those being granted the Amnesty weren;t criminals.

I tell everyone I meet about how Obama realy targets Hispanics and wants to exploit them. The "media" is always minimizing the important stuff. And whether this is a major issue or not is merely perspective. The Stimulus, the TARP, the supplemental spending bills , and Obamacare were to a certain extent, approved by Congress. This was not. It is anti-Constitutional and resulted in needless deaths. And this Scumbag Muslim Traitor, has the Audacity, not of hope but of Amoral and depravity of spirit, to have blamed US citizens who exercise their rights for the carnage HE CAUSED! And the fact that the Mexican government isn't raising hell over this testifies to their corruption and Amorality. It's like the big fuss over Syrian civilians being murdered while the murder of Israeli civilians is ignored. All of a sudden, after decades of brutality by Khadafi, all of a sudden Obama goes to was without Congressional consent, while continuing to ignore the carnage in Iran.

So, I'm not letting it go.

[David]

I just can't believe these idiots thought mass killings in Mexico would lead for calls for "gun control" here in the US. This thing seems to have its inception with the ATF in Arizona. They were under pressure to nab the big fish in Mexico. Not the small fry buying weapons in this country.

The question then arises why the cover up? Did Holder, and or BHO, approve this mess? But, why executive privilege?

[Mad_Dog]

why executive privilege?

Rope-a-dope? Doubtful.

To protect Holder, because he wouldn't be able to get another partisan thug like him through the nomination process? Probable.

Because he personally authorized the operation? Possible. It fits his M.O. And, after all... it was only Mexicans living in Mexico who were being murdered by those guns. It's not like they were voters or anything.

[dcannady]

There is no possible justification for withholding those documents from Congress other than to cover up wrongdoing. Imagine the the parade of news stories and pictures of the carnage in Mexico, the calls for impeachment and indictments were this to be a Republican President.

"Oh, but we don't want to make the Democrats mad at us! They might yell at us and accuse us of horrible things!" No, we can't take a chance on that.

[FoundingFather]

Watching the F&F hearings on C-SPAN today (actual date 6/20). It's clear that none of the Dems want to continue it. They have no desire to get to the truth. Some even claim that Holder has gone out of his way to provide documents.

Meanwhile, the Republican reps who spoke were quite eloquent in explaining why they are there doing what it is they are doing. Their job is to get to the truth, and the truth hasn't come out yet. Pretty simple stuff.

[dcannady]

For the Democrats, this couldn't be any worse. In Clinton's case, they made the case that it was a trivial matter of sexual indiscretion. In this case, however, it was about giving guns to killers and lives were lost. And, if Congress is able to get the evidence showing who is involved, it could mean prison time. This is a very big crime and a massive scandal for all involved. Something like this can't be swept under the rug without undermining the last vestiges of respect for and confidence in the law.

[David]

Rep.Elijah Cummings (D-S.C.)-" I just wonder why Republicans keep going after Eric Holder." FOX News Sunday

Throw that obvious race card out there. It ALWAYS is race.

FOX News all over Fast & Furious. MSM take a pass. Can FNC keep it on the radar?

[Rifleman]

Just saw FOX this morning, but not the others. The DimocRATs are counting on outdated conventional wisdom, that the "gun" issue is not a major issue They may have convinced most Republicans, as evidenced by both Bushes sorry record of defending the RKBA, but it simply isn't true. The Dims know this which is why they are trying to ignore the issue, or turn it into something else like Clinton did with the NRA. But, gun sales, aftetr a lag are back up to Obama innauguration levels and in spite of a bad economy. The best selling gun is a AR-15 or copy.

And it's not hard, unless you believe the Dim rhetoric, to believe that the motivation for the program wasn't to catch Criminals, it was to justify another unconstitutional gun control law. At best, it was criminally negligent! And what jurisdictional justification is there for the BATFE to be conducting a "sting" operation in a foreign country? The FBI? Maybe, if there is some sort of treaty, but not the BATFE. And the Mexican government wasn;t even aware of the program.

Besides, the response of the Dims is all wrong. A large operation like this goes horribly bad, even if it was "unintentional", and the "defense" of the President and the Attorney General is "that they didn't know about it"? So will Obama defend his Obamacare being struck down by the Supreme Court as "He didn;t know the individual mandate was in there? How would they? None of them read it! As it turns out, Obama made quite a few campaign promises regarding guns. He promised to rescing the "Tiahrt Ammendment to the Gun control act, US law section 922, to ensure that guns don't fall into the wrong hands. It's more like don't fall into anyone's hands. So shortly after taking office, the Department of Homeland security issues a memmo abbouncing the profiling of ex-military, tax protestors, religious people, and gun owners as being recruited and co-opted by extreme racist right wing groups. The record rate of gun sales panicked the left and they called for extreme measures then, even though every single gun sale that they characterized as possibly criminal, was approved by the FBI through the mandatory background check! Since then as we now know, there was a prototpye "raid in the Houstin area that was supposed to be a model for future "raids", and there was Fast and Furious. At one point, and you may remember the Dim operatives that lurked on the frun here, the claim was that the NRA was "paranoid" because Obama wasn't doing anything about the gun issue. And some Dims started to believe it. Even extremist Sarah Brady had to be reaasured by Obama "that he was working on itm be patiant".

So now we know! I believe, the ATF enabled a gun smuggling operation to incite violence in Mexico in hopes of the Obama media doing hit pieces on legal gun sales in the US, and getting a new round of gun control laws even worse than before. There is evidence that the ATF is also compiling an illegal centralized database of gun purchases and the owners for future reference. And Obama has used the executive pen to authorize direct reporting of so-called "Assault Weapons" purchases even though there is no legal basis to do so, like there is for handgun purchases. And what surprise? This is the kind of thing Holder PROMISED before his confirmation!

[jtdc]

In essence, Cummings and other DIMs say it was a bad plan, a mistake, an organizational problem. So move on, nothing to see. The problem is the "organization" is not a robot. A human made the decision. Originally it was alleged a "rogue" operation. If so, who ever authorized it is a criminal and should be brought to justice. And that is what this is about. Some human is responsible!

[FastEddy]

Originally Posted by David

Rep.Elijah Cummings (D-S.C.)-" I just wonder why Republicans keep going after Eric Holder." FOX News Sunday ...

Because he is stupid? Because he is a bigot? Because he is acting in direct violation of the Constitution?

And its not just republicans. The committee has several democrats who want to know the truth as well.

[David]

Was Fast and Furious Intended To Promote Gun Control? Another View

SOURCE

[David]

There are a number of Dems who will vote to hold Holder in contempt. Stay tuned.

[David]

Will be fascinating to watch the media avoid explaining F&F and will dismiss the contempt vote as "partisan politics" or racism.

[David]

I don't know if I buy the theory Obama and/or Holder dreamed up Fast & Furious in order to drum up support for gun control. First, Americans don't care about violence in Mexico. It's a dangerous place. Second, how would we know there was an uptick in gun violence once the weapons crossed the border.

F&F was just STUPID

[Rifleman]

Originally Posted by David

I don't know if I buy the theory Obama and/or Holder dreamed up Fast & Furious in order to drum up support for gun control. First, Americans don't care about violence in Mexico. It's a dangerous place. Second, how would we know there was an uptick in gun violence once the weapons crossed the border.

F&F was just STUPID

I might believe the same if not for the "practice gun confiscations in Houston masquerading as an effort to address the "gun problem" with US guns going to Mexico. Basically, the TF and prosecutors from the Justice Department went into Houston to racially profile Hispanics who bought guns legally there.

While they had some individuals who had been traced back from confiscated crime guns in Mexico, many were identified as "suspects' simply because they had legal resgistration forms at Houston gun shops, AND they had checked the "Hispanic box" under "race, on the same forms. All I could find out about THAT program was from newpaper articles praising the priogram.

Anyway, since that program ended in 2009, Bill White was mayor, we have had F & F, and so I have been told by at least two gun dealers, requests from the BATFE, (its current offical title under the Justice Department, it was moved from Treasury because of massive numbers of abuses) for gun registration data regarding Hispanics who bought guns legally. If true, and COngress could find out, not only is this racial profiling, but it is another violation of federal law, the particular federal law Obama promised to rescind, but has instead ignored. You see, the 1968 Gun Control Act, which set up the Registration system, ONLY passed because the records are decentralized at the respective gun store. The BATFE, is ONLY supposed to use these forms in the event of an actual and legitimate investigation.

Anywya, since Obama decided "his vehicle for new gun control" was only going to be gun traficking to Mexico, this was the only vehicle he had. Trouble is, the leftist media has LONG ignored the massive violence in Mexico, where almost 10,000 are killed by Mexican drug gangs a year. Many of these are civilians and the killings are better classifed as terrorism. Anyway, it's a problem, since the numbers of killings are likely to call for a tighter border, so Obama has been playing both sides.

You see, since gun control is based upon a false premise, it is actually difficult to justify. The Brady Bunch, had a terrible and unsuccessful time trying to renew the Assault Weapons ban. On one hand they had to claim, (falsely of course) that the expiring AWB had reduced crime and should be renewed, OTOH they had to claim that it needed strengthening because it wasn't working. So now Obama has to claim that F & F was simply a "botched gun smuggling enfrocement program, while ignoring the fact that Mexcio is very violent and the Drug Cartels are the ones on the border and sending coyotes and illegals across. Firearms that AREN'T from the US, including Morters, RPG's, and Heavy Machine guns, have been uncovered in cahces near the border. Who wants those caches here? ANyway, having F & F exposed complicates his gun control problems.

So that's why I believe it!