The "Green Jobs" Fantasy

[schaabdl]

Boortz contributions:

• If a cop fills out an accident report involving a Prisu, is that a green job?
• Is pimping for a vegan hooker a green job?

[Bemused]

Originally Posted by schaabdl

Boortz contributions:

• If a cop fills out an accident report involving a Prisu, is that a green job?
• Is pimping for a vegan hooker a green job?

Lies, damned lies, and green job tabulations

[David]

Obama spent $10 billion for 355 jobs per year
Renewable-energy-grant program produces stunning result

SOURCE

[FastEddy]

Originally Posted by David

Obama spent $10 billion for 355 jobs per year
Renewable-energy-grant program produces stunning result

SOURCE

Latest change = CBS/admin. spin on report increases jobs to 910

Drudge Headline today re: David's link above = "SHOCK: $9 Billion in 'Stimulus' for Green Projects Created Just 910 Jobs! [$9.8 Million Per Job]"

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Does not change schaabdl / Boortz contributions:
* If a cop fills out an accident report involving a Prisu, is that a green job?
* Is pimping for a vegan hooker a green job?
* Does eating salad for lunch create more green jobs?

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Big snooze paper ad in the SF Comical today touting Taxifornia's "high speed" trains (again). If the Taxifornia "high speed" passenger trains costs $1 Million per day for electric power (best estimate so far when complete) and carries only 12,000 passengers per day, does the $60 ticket cover the $83 spent for the precious juice?

[David]

Lights go dim on another energy project
Geothermal losses pile up

SOURCE

[FastEddy]

Re: Geothermal Power.

Up here in North California there are a couple of dozen hot water geothermal generators ... "Brown water" from Santa Rosa area gets pumped into the Geyserville ancient volcano, the water gets heated and spins turbines making quite inexpensive electricity.

Rather than pollute the Russian River (in days gone by) this multi-use, ,multi-tiered system overall is very "green" and reasonably cost effective.

The problem is that in several other regions of the country, g'ment(s) try or are trying to duplicate The Geysers Projects with, in most cases, only marginally cost effective results ... in a few cases, egregiously complicated and hugely expensive, these g'ment projects just do not work.

[schaabdl]

The concept of geothermal appears to work on small scales or as in Fast's example, where there is a natural assist. For example, my home is heated / cooled through a close circuit geothermal system (same as GWB Crawford Ranch system). This is actually a very doable system for all new home constructions and I dare say, we've paid for the system in conditioned air costs over the 12 years in our house.

[FastEddy]

Originally Posted by schaabdl

The concept of geothermal appears to work on small scales or as in Fast's example, where there is a natural assist. For example, my home is heated / cooled through a close circuit geothermal system (same as GWB Crawford Ranch system). This is actually a very doable system for all new home constructions and I dare say, we've paid for the system in conditioned air costs over the 12 years in our house.

You can call it "geothermal" but it is really just a simple Heat Exchanger ... sending hot or cold water down into the under ground heat exchanger and getting cooler or warmer water back ... Using a "Heat Pump" to do dual duty as heating in winter, cooling in summer.

Yes, this is more cost effective, quite efficient, especially the A/C side of the equation.

Once one drills down into the local ground and taps into the upper parts of the local water table, temperatures are quite stable and almost always warmer in winter, cooler in summer than the air in and around your ranch ===

(Note that the heat exchanger "water" never leaves the closed, sealed system, it just gets recirculated ... In fact it is usually not "water" but a common form of auto/truck anti-freeze.)

[schaabdl]

Fast: Ours is water - in fact, it actually recirculates through the hot water tank. With our separate meters, we pay zero on heating hot water during AC usage (water is almost too hot!) and even in the winter the water entering through the heating system is warmer than the replacement water through the pipes so there is savings there as well.

[FastEddy]

Originally Posted by schaabdl

Fast: Ours is water - in fact, it actually recirculates through the hot water tank. With our separate meters, we pay zero on heating hot water during AC usage (water is almost too hot!) and even in the winter the water entering through the heating system is warmer than the replacement water through the pipes so there is savings there as well.

"Truth is one, paths are many." - The Dalai Lama

[David]

Failure of Serious Energy is a 'BFD' for Obama and His Chicago Cronies

SOURCE

[FastEddy]

The Serious Energy product are mostly energy efficient windows for office buildings. A booming business model that should work and should be profitable ... but once these fools start sucking hind tit of g'ment, the back-shish gets too fat and the clowns in charge begin looting the cash for fancy cars and wild weekends and paying off politicians, the whole granfaloon begins to crumble.

[FastEddy]

Latest List of Green Job Fantasy Failures:

" ... Kate Adams, a member of Heritage’s Young Leaders Program, and Heritage’s Rachael Slobodien compiled a list of the 12 members of the Green Graveyard—companies that received taxpayer money for green initiatives yet have filed for bankruptcy.

Abound Solar (Loveland, Colorado), manufacturer of thin film photovoltaic modules.

Beacon Power (Tyngsborough, Massachusetts), designed and developed advanced products and services to support stable, reliable and efficient electricity grid operation.

Ener1 (Indianapolis, Indiana), built compact lithium-ion-powered battery solutions for hybrid and electric cars.

Energy Conversion Devices (Rochester Hills, Michigan/Auburn Hills, Michigan), manufacturer of flexible thin film photovoltaic (PV) technology and a producer of batteries and other renewable energy-related products.

Evergreen Solar, Inc. (Marlborough, Massachusetts), manufactured and installed solar panels.

Mountain Plaza, Inc. (Dandridge, Tennessee), designed and implemented “truck-stop electrification” technology.

Olsen’s Crop Service and Olsens Mills Acquisition Co. (Berlin, Wisconsin), a private company producing ethanol.

Range Fuels (Soperton, Georgia), tried to develop a technology that converted biomass into ethanol without the use of enzymes.

Raser Technologies (Provo, Utah), geothermal power plants and technology licensing.

Solyndra (Fremont, California), manufacturer of cylindrical panels of thin-film solar cells.

Spectrawatt (Hopewell, New York), solar cell manufacturer.

Thompson River Power LLC (Wayzata, Minnesota), designed and developed advanced products and services to support stable, reliable and efficient electricity grid operation.

Some lawmakers are looking for a solution. The aptly named No More Solyndras Act would prohibit any new loan guarantees from Title XVII of the Energy Policy Act of 2005. " >> From newsletter link to Heritage Foundation Online

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These are just the "green" bankruptcies! Wondering where the list if for ALL companies that have received loans, bailouts, gifts, grants, etc... from Departments of Energy, Commerce, DARPA, and all of the rest of this administration's wonderful feel good "green" efforts?

[David]

$1.3 billion in ‘clean energy’ subsidies
produce 288 permanent jobs, quadruple
cost of electricity in Nevada
Reid-sponsored National Clean Energy Summit
pushes more subsidies as key to Nevada’s future

SOURCE

[David]

Studies say wind could power the world; but costs not factored in, so hope may be hot air

SOURCE

[BoomerSue]

This may not exactly fit into the GREEN JOB FANTASY topic but something that makes me think it has to do with on of the segments of the movement as a whole. . The Back to nature segment... If you have a wild animal on your property in California that endangers your pets or children and you report it...you will here that "They were there first". Most everyone has heard of the deaths in Yosemite Park of several Campers that stayed in the Parks tents. Over a thousand people have been exposed to a type if disease carried by mice..primarily field mice. The bacteria is carried by droppings of the rodent left in the tents. My thinking is that the conservationalist would not "KILL" the rodents because "they were there first". We have a small fishing pier about 6 miles from our house and cars are denied access at certain times of the year because they would run over the "endangered speicies" of the salt marsh "mouse". During the first stimulous, California recieved a check for $40,000 that was specified for the protection of the salt marsh mouse. Need I say more. The whole thing is insane

[jtdc]

Originally Posted by David

Studies say wind could power the world; but costs not factored in, so hope may be hot air

SOURCE

Like Global Warming, I think they are myopic! GW worshipers look at one gas that could cause GW and ignore every other factor to reach their conclusions. I think back to the "The Spirit of St. Louis" movie about Charles Lindberg's transatlantic flight. In the movie there was a fly in the cockpit. Lindberg was pondering if the fly was airborne if it would add to the weight of the plane. The scientific fact is it will. Nothing rides for free.

With wind turbines, the power they absorb affect wind flow. Will that change weather patterns to our detriment? Current wind turbines kill birds.

And, of course, they admit there will be startup costs. But there is also continuing maintenance costs.

I agree that a substantial portion of our electricity can be produced by wind power. But I think they go idealistically overboard.

[jtdc]

Originally Posted by BoomerSue

Most everyone has heard of the deaths in Yosemite Park of several Campers that stayed in the Parks tents. Over a thousand people have been exposed to a type if disease carried by mice..primarily field mice. The bacteria is carried by droppings of the rodent left in the tents. My thinking is that the conservationalist would not "KILL" the rodents because "they were there first".

Difficult one because that is their territory, unlike bears coming into residential neighborhoods. Remember that California Enviros would rather humans starve to death than kill fish to get water for irrigation. We should offer those enviros as sacrifice to the environmental gods.

[Rifleman]

I think the poiont should be, GREEN JOBS, was simply a ruse from the beginning. To listen to Van Jones, GREEN JOBS were "ALWAYS" intended to be a club for more socialism and socila justice, not a means of economic reality. Clearly, Van Jones intended those "jobs" to be a means of enslaving the population and promoting "fairness". Therefore: GREEN JOBS = RED JOBS!

They WILL NEVER be cost effective or pay for themselves, because if they were, they would be basically useless to Obama and Van Jones for "transforming America!" Look at "Cash for Clunkers"! SAME THING! Didn't do anything positive! It was to manipulate Americans by wasting their own public money to finance it.

[jtdc]

Originally Posted by Rifleman

They WILL NEVER be cost effective or pay for themselves, because if they were, they would be basically useless to Obama and Van Jones for "transforming America!"

Never say never. As for "They WILL NEVER be cost effective", that depends of the qualifications you use. Cars were big polluters until we added pollution devices, which increased the cost dramatically and reduced efficiency dramatically. Is it worth the extra cost? Yes! So while oil is cheaper, by far, than current green alternatives, that doesn't mean it is the best way to go, unless money is all you care about.

I know your point is pointing out the corrupt motives of Van Jones and company. That is the part that must be eradicated.