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| Free-For-All Discuss miscellaneous issues and events. |
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#1
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Was this proper? These kids did something horrible. They hurt someone badly. However, 12 yrs old? In cuffs? LA Times
Young Accusers Arrested, Led From School in Cuffs Garden Grove police take in three preteen girls whose story jailed a transient for 8 months. By H.G. Reza and Joel Rubin Times Staff Writers February 10, 2004 Three Orange County girls who sent a homeless man to jail for eight months after telling police and prosecutors he had attacked them at a park were arrested Monday at school and taken away in handcuffs for making up the story. The 12-year-old girls were booked on suspicion of conspiracy and taken to Juvenile Hall until a court hearing Wednesday. "They handcuffed her, with her arms behind her back. She was scared and started shaking," said Veronica Mendez Ochoa, the mother of one of two girls arrested at James Irvine Intermediate School in Garden Grove. "She's a little girl, but they handcuffed her like she was a murderer." The schoolyard arrests marked another twist in a case that rekindles debate over how severely authorities should punish children. Last spring, the three girls allegedly concocted a story so their parents would not punish them for coming home late from school: A homeless man lying near a bush motioned them over and then grabbed one of them. The girl managed to escape only after her friend bravely fought off the assailant. The girl took the witness stand last month, testifying that Eric Nordmark, a 36-year-old drifter, "started choking me. And then I turned purple Â… I couldn't breathe, and I felt like I was going to black out." Nordmark, who police said generally matched the description given by the girls, had spent eight months in jail awaiting trial. He could have faced five years in prison if convicted in the attack. After her tearful testimony, however, the girl confessed to her mother that the story was not true. In addition to a felony charge of conspiracy, the girl who testified also faces a charge of perjury. "Everybody was duped by these girls," Orange County Deputy Dist. Atty. Heather Brown said at the time. She later asked for all charges against Nordmark to be dismissed. Authorities said the arrest of the girls was intended to send a message about the consequences of lying to police. "They did something very serious," said Garden Grove Police Lt. Mike Handfield. "They put [an innocent] guy in jail for eight months." An attorney for one of the girls said Monday that police could have asked the parents to bring their children to the police station, rather than make a show of their arrest on campus. "This alleged crime is not a violent crime," said Shirley MacDonald Juarez, the attorney. "These girls have been totally cooperative with police. There was no need for this." Mendez, the girl's mother, said police did not allow her daughter, who is diabetic, to bring along her medical kit containing insulin and syringes. When she called police to complain, Mendez said, "they didn't care. They told me she was being interrogated by an investigator without a lawyer present." Handfield said the girl was read her Miranda rights but did not ask to have her attorney or a parent present during questioning. He added that police were finished questioning the girl by the time Juarez, her attorney, called the station to invoke the girl's right to remain silent. Mendez said her daughter was returning to school Monday after spending five days at Children's Hospital of Orange County for treatment of her diabetes. Curtis Lavarello, executive director of the National Assn. of School Resources Officers, said handcuffing students is generally considered appropriate if they are a flight risk, or if they were armed. "It sounds like this was uncommon," Lavarello said. "I'm not sure [police] weren't doing more harm than good." The girls live in an apartment complex in a neighborhood off of Euclid Street, made up mostly of blue-collar families. The building stands in the shadow of the Garden Grove Freeway. Traffic rumbles by day and night. Garden Grove police were called to the apartment May 16. At the time, the three girls were students at Woodbury Elementary School; two of them were age 11, and one was 12. They told a detailed story, police said, describing their assailant as a white man, about 6 feet tall, weighing 190 to 200 pounds and wearing a black hooded sweatshirt and white sneakers. Two brothers, ages 10 and 12, who also lived at the complex, had reported being harassed by a homeless man two days earlier. Police said their description of the man was similar to the one given by the girls. Handfield said police at the time feared there was a sexual predator in the neighborhood. Nordmark had been arrested earlier that week for public drunkenness. Police created a photo lineup consisting of Nordmark and five other men. The first girl picked him out, and, police allege, coached her friends to also identify Nordmark as the man who had attacked them in the park. The two brothers also identified Nordmark, and police arrested him May 20. After declaring his innocence, Nordmark said, he spent his months in jail doing crossword puzzles and playing chess with other inmates. "It is scary how powerless you are when you are faced with something like this," the North Dakota native said in an interview last month. He has filed a claim against the Garden Grove Police Department for botching the investigation. Nordmark's attorney, David Swanson, said the department could have uncovered the lie had it been more careful. He said, for example, that the department should have shuffled the order of the photo lineup so that the first girl would not have been able to coach her friends. Defending his department's practices, Handfield said last month that it was difficult to imagine veteran detectives and prosecutors being fooled by three young girls.
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David Gold |
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#2
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I don't think this was inappropriate at all. These three girls conspired against an innocent man, including lying to police.
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Show me a sane man and I will cure him for you. ~Carl Jung |
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#3
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I think it's great that they were led out in handcuffs. Maybe it will teach them a lesson.
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#4
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I do have certain questions concerning their interrogation period and their rights, but on the matter of their being arrested and handcuffed, I have no reservations at all.
These girls not only made up a serious accusation, they also indicated an innocent person who was then arrested and held in jail. He may have been a drifter, a homeless person, but that still is no excuse for for these girls. That they, and their fellow school mates, learn that charging an innocent person, with a serious crime, simply to save their own skin, is serious and utterly wrong. I am also not too enamored of the parents reaction either. Maybe they are in denial of the seriousness of the situation that their daughters created. I can quite imagine, how they would react, if someone made a serious accusation against their daughter, falsely, and that it was their daughter held in jail for eight months. But then the alleged guilty person, implicated by the daughters, was simply a "homeless" person, and so what real harm came to him...right? Cuff em Dan'l! |
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#5
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Well Boo-Freakin'-Hoo! They were "little girls" cuffed like "murderers". These little twits deprived a man of 8 months of his life, cost court time and legal fees, and caused family and friends anguish. Sorry, I just can't work up any sympathy for them. :angry2:
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#6
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There should be a provision to register them in a data base and publish their whereabouts.
It would be every bit as dangerous living next door to them as it would be living next to a child molester. It could be called Eric's Law, for the poor jerk that was their victim. |
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#7
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I don't have sympathy for them in regards to being hauled away in front of their classmates. I am not opposed to the handcuffs, but I am not convinced it is appropriate, unless they were considered dangerous.
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"We shall steer safely through every storm so long as our heart is right, our intention fervent, our courage steadfast, and our trust fixed on God." — St. Francis de Sales |
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#8
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Think they'll do it again? Sometimes if you can grab their attention this way early enough it will motivate them to stay out of trouble.
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If work doesn't suck, how come they have to pay us to do it? |
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#9
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Part of what the law is about is "deterrant" While it has a direct effect on them, it will also serve as a wakeup call for any other kids who saw it or heard about it, that you don't get treated like a kid when you do a crime.
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#10
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AP
Girls get detention for falsely accusing man in Orange County By JEREMIAH MARQUEZ, Associated Press Writer - (Published March 4, 2004) ORANGE, Calif. (AP) - Three 12-year-old girls whose false accusations sent a transient man to jail for eight months were ordered to serve up to 45 days in juvenile detention after admitting to a conspiracy charge Thursday. One girl also admitted perjury. Two girls received 45-day terms and one received a month of detention from Orange County Juvenile Court Commissioner Michael Cassidy in a closed-door hearing. Each received credit for 25 days already spent in custody. Each girl also must perform 60 hours of community service, pay unspecified restitution and remain on probation until age 21. The transient, Eric Nordmark, 37, was arrested last May on felony and misdemeanor charges of attacking the girls in a park in Garden Grove. His trial ended abruptly in January and he was released after one of the girls who testified against him admitted the three made up the story to cover up for returning home late from school. Nordmark, now staying with friends in Seattle, criticized the decision to punish the girls. "Kids are kids. Kids do bonehead things," he said in a telephone interview. "If the police had done their job right, this wouldn't have happened." Nordmark's civil attorney has threatened to sue the city of Garden Grove for allegedly faulty police work if no suitable settlement is offered. Prosecutor Mike Fell said he wanted the girls to serve the same amount of time in detention as Nordmark had spent in jail, but that the court's decision still sent a message. "We would just hope that people out there realize how serious it is when a person unlawfully accuses another of a crime, whether that person is homeless or not," he said. An attorney for one of the girls said she thought the ruling was fair. "Believe me, they are awake now to what they did. They're very remorseful," said Paula Drake, who represented the girl who received the 30-day term. Saul Reyes, who represented one of the other girls, said they lied because they were afraid of being reprimanded by their parents. "These girls are not the types that are going to be back here in juvenile hall," he said. Raised in Wisconsin by a teacher and clinical psychologist, Nordmark dropped out of college after a semester and enlisted in the Army before he took to roaming, often following Grateful Dead tours. After giving college another try and again dropping out, he returned to drifting. He spent last winter in San Diego County's Ocean Beach. Nordmark then headed north toward Seattle but stopped in Orange County, sleeping behind a Kmart, he said. He was questioned by police May 16 and arrested the following week. He said he had never been to the park where the girls claimed they were attacked. Until the one girl recanted, he said, he believed they had been attacked but that he was the victim of mistaken identity.
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David Gold |
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#11
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'romain on probation until 21'
If that's not punishment I don't know what is. I don't think they know what they got into yet but they'll figure it out soon enough. No parties, no staying over friends houses, better pick your friends carefully, etc. as they can be searched at wim by their correction officer, who doesn't need a search warrant to search the premises. Very harsh, but hopefully the other kids will learn from this and stay out of trouble. |
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#12
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"Kids are kids. Kids do bonehead things," he said in a telephone interview. "If the police had done their job right, this wouldn't have happened."
The kid's don't have any money. The police-the taxpayers-do!! I really liked the unvarnished bias in the first article stating where they lived. By that noisy freeway. There has to be something that caused these poor little girls to do such a thing. Other than probably poor parenting which seems apparent by the mother's remarks. Basically it wasn't her fault. And, isn't there a Hate Crime in here somewhere? |
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#13
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There is a harshness of spirit prevailing today that was nearly unknown, when I was young. Children are the same as they've always been, but the adults are less "adult" and more like aged peers.
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#14
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Quote:
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#15
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Nice observation Rachel!
Authorities often seem ready to take accusations as fact. Kobi's case seems to be revealing that. While our laws claim that the accused is presumed innocent until proven guilty, the accuser is the one everyone is protecting, alleging that she is a victim. In this case, the authorities many need remedial training. |