Intelligent Design

[jtdc]

Any educated person who reads the Bible can see it for what it is, not a mere Book, but THE BOOK, Book that ends all books, the greatest book in the history of humanity.

Of course the book has many versions which can have opposite meanings according to who interprets it. I would think that the word of God would have a single interpretation regardless of who was reading it.

Yes, I am opinionated, and yes, I study the Bible and use Exegesis to do so, which is how the Bible SHOULD be interpreted, not reading into a passage for what you want it to say, but for actually what it says.

I have argued before that you are depending on other sources to interpret the book. The Word Of God should speak to you directly. Exegesis seems to have many interpretation itself. So you are using a flexible interpretation method to interpret the Bible and claim the interpretation to be absolute.

But the actual passage says that he will come like they did in the when Jesus was here on earth, like a band of mauraders coming into town to take everything, and everyone knew they were there to begin with.

That's one interpretation.

Ok, I think everyone is misinterpreting what I was trying to get at in the first place.

Everybody's wrong and you are right?

AA, I may be out on a limb, but the branch is thick.

Something's "thick"!

So therefore, Boe and myself were saying the same thing, just two different ways.

:?

[nagash]

Having known a lot of Christians where I am not one myself (although my mom tried), I think it safe to say that everyone who reads the bible interpets it in their own way, for better or worse I might add.
For most it is a simple matter of faith. You ether believe or you don't, and if you don't, what do you believe, and do you call that your faith. Many people forget that just because someone doesn't believe in Christ doesn't mean their wrong, for they aren't in their eyes or others of their faith. Nobody knows until they die, so it's a big guessing game until then.

On the matter of how we got here, nobody knows how it was done yet. Neither design nor evolution has produced that missing link that proves one over the other. You haven't come up with Adam and Eve's bones, and we haven't come up with the big bang. We simply do not know.
In the meantime, we each believe what we want to believe. I would ask that we all keep an open mind and eyes on what's coming out, for both sides are still looking, and more bones are coming up.
I will say why I go with evolution: look at the animals, not just us humans. Ask why an African elephent has large ears but an Indian elephent has small ones? Why did a wolly mamenth, also an elephant, have fur where the other two don't? Better yet, have you seen the beast that they evolved from? The bones don't lie either.

[B. Ungaro]

The problem is that some people try to Impose the Bible on the World as GODS WORD, which it is not. If they could just be satisfied with accepting the Bible as the Allegorical Teachings of Learned and Wise Men, the Bible could become very meaningful to a lot of people who now REJECT IT.

[boedark]

Originally Posted by zenodaddy

AA, I may be out on a limb, but the branch is thick.

Cliche noted but the comparison is wrong. The statements you made earlier place you on a very thin branch.

Originally Posted by zenodaddy

With me saying that the Bible is written by 40+ different authors is in no way an opinion, it is a fact. Also with me saying that if someone thinks the Bible is written by one person is assinine, then the assinine remark is opinion, while the statement about the Bible is not written by one person is a fact.

So therefore, Boe and myself were saying the same thing, just two different ways.

Are we any clearer on this or what?

Well lets see, I think you added a little verbage to prop up your assertion. So, lets just go back to what you said and my response. Maybe we'll see if there is a thread of truth to your claim above.

Originally Posted by zenodaddy

Bill my friend, you have no reason, and no thought process of your own. Any educated person who reads the Bible can see it for what it is, not a mere Book, but THE BOOK, Book that ends all books, the greatest book in the history of humanity.

For someone to say the Bible was created by one man is plain assinine to the fullest extent of the word. I have already explained to you time and time again on key points on how the Bible was put together and you will hear none of it.

Either carry on a legit conversation on the Bible or just shut up about it. You don't have questions, only illogical accusations.
_________________
Z

Originally Posted by Boe

Hmm, the text of the Bible is comprised of differing styles of writing, clearly indicating multiple authors. The verbage you scribed above is more vapid opinion. Yeah Bill scribes his opinion and you retort with yours. Yawn.

Now, if you can't see a clear difference between what the two of us had to say then your view is a bit encumbered with some really deep rose colored glasses.

[boedark]

Originally Posted by zenodaddy

Ok, I think everyone is misinterpreting what I was trying to get at in the first place. I was trying to say, that it is not the world's knowledge that makes a person intelligent, but by a higher understanding given by God.

That's a point built on a false notion and a really bad point to attempt.
First, we need a definition of the word intelligent.

From Merriam-Webster Online:

Main Entry: in·tel·li·gent
Pronunciation: in-'te-l&-j&nt
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin intelligent-, intelligens, present participle of intelligere, intellegere to understand, from inter- + legere to gather, select -- more at LEGEND
1 a : having or indicating a high or satisfactory degree of intelligence and mental capacity b : revealing or reflecting good judgment or sound thought : SKILLFUL
2 a : possessing intelligence b : guided or directed by intellect : RATIONAL
3 a : guided or controlled by a computer; especially : using a built-in microprocessor for automatic operation, for processing of data, or for achieving greater versatility -- compare DUMB 7 b : able to produce printed material from digital signals <an intelligent copier>
- in·tel·li·gen·tial /-"te-l&-'jen(t)-sh&l/ adjective
- in·tel·li·gent·ly /-'te-l&-j&nt-lE/ adverb

synonyms INTELLIGENT, CLEVER, ALERT, QUICK-WITTED mean mentally keen or quick. INTELLIGENT stresses success in coping with new situations and solving problems <an intelligent person could assemble it fast>. CLEVER implies native ability or aptness and sometimes suggests a lack of more substantial qualities <clever with words>. ALERT stresses quickness in perceiving and understanding <alert to new technology>. QUICK-WITTED implies promptness in finding answers in debate or in devising expedients in moments of danger or challenge <no match for his quick-witted opponent>.

As a further illustration of why your assertion is wrong, I submit the following scripture (the same as yesterday) rejecting intelligence altogether in favor of faith in God.

1 Corinthians 2:1-5
1 And when I came to you, brethren, I did not come with superiority of speech or of wisdom, proclaiming to you the testimony of God. 2 For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified. 3 I was with you in weakness and in fear and in much trembling, 4 and my message and my preaching were not in persuasive words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, 5 so that your faith would not rest on the wisdom of men, but on the power of God.

The claim you made above is just plain wrong. I hope you have the capacity to see that fact and accept it.

[aammondd]

Zeno

Crawl back now.

Do I have to explain how thin your branch is.

You assert that all intelligence comes from God. This notion goes completely against Free will. If God created us with all these variences and pours intelligence into some and not others then why are we condemned for our actions. (Just reading the Bible is not enough to gain intelligence from God. If that were so everyone would believe the same thing who has read it.) This thwarts the whole concept that there is a need for a savior at all.


I think that what you are trying to say is that true knowledge about how things really are comes from God. All other things we prize as knowledge may or may not be true but what comes from God is true.
I can accept that but proving it to anyone else is just pure folly.
(Ive argued the reason for this over and over in this thread)
The best you can hope for is invite them to experience it for themselves.

I reject the notion that no one knows till they die only because I am sure of my faith. However that does nothing to prove it outside myself so its a moot point.

Bill is convinced, probably due to the human failings of men, that the Bible and religion are just a crock full of hypocrites and paradoxes. You think reading the Bible is going to help him?

Plain and simple your arguments are based on assumptions that are unprovable by you and not shared by others.

Making sweeping assertations like the ones you have are dangerous to your credibility to those whom you are trying to convince to experriment upon Gods word.

John 7:17
17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

This is the way it works.

[boedark]

Well said.

[seattlegal]

{chuckle} I really got a kick out of this part:

Main Entry: in·tel·li·gent
Pronunciation: in-'te-l&-j&nt
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin intelligent-, intelligens, present participle of intelligere, intellegere to understand, from inter- + legere to gather, select -- more at LEGEND

Does this mean that intelligence qualifies as one of Uncle Bill's "Fairy Tales?"

If God didn't believe in us enough to grant us free will, our puny intelligence would seem like a "Fairy Tale." However, I believe in God, and it seems, to me, that God believes in me, and the rest of humankind.

[B. Ungaro]

Seattle,

Did that make you FEEL GOOD? That is all what this is about. You can't get juiced up on life, so you go to slogans and fairy tales. You are missing out.

[boedark]

Originally Posted by B. Ungaro

Seattle,

Did that make you FEEL GOOD?

I don't know about Seattle, but it makes feel all warm and fuzzy when somebody points out another of your seemingly, endless flaws of character.

[B. Ungaro]

Boe,

Are you related to Taliban Don?

[joe]

Bill,

I am Don's faithful sidekick, Redundant Man. If you don't believe me, ask Osi.

[boedark]

Originally Posted by B. Ungaro

Boe,

Are you related to Taliban Don?

LOL! Bill are you related to the human species!?

[B. Ungaro]

Boe,

Do you mind if I call you Sancho?

[boedark]

Originally Posted by B. Ungaro

Boe,

Do you mind if I call you Sancho?

Not if I can call you Adolf.

[aammondd]

Having turned the Bill filter on in this thread. That last exchange was pretty funny.

[aammondd]

Zeno

I wasnt trying to be offensive in my remarks.

[boedark]

Originally Posted by aammondd

Having turned the Bill filter on in this thread. That last exchange was pretty funny.

Poking the bear is fun!

[boedark]

Okay Zenodaddy,

I know we've bumped heads. I suspect that we've done so due mostly to Joe's prompting on your behalf.

This is an olive branch. If you accept it then we start anew, the choice is yours. I bare you no ill will and wish you only God's peace. Will you accept? My friend, I suspect there is more alike in our beliefs than different. Can we journey forth as friends?

[zenodaddy]

Wow Boe, I was really not expecting that, olive branch accepted, I totally have a new respect for you after that, truce.

I guess at this point since we have been butting heads, then friends it is.