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  #1  
Old 07-29-2009, 8:00 PM
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Default Rand Corporation reports that the VA outperforms other US medical care systems

Rand came out with a study recently that claims that the VA outperforms all other medical systems in the US, public or private:

http://www.rand.org/pubs/research_br...AND_RB9100.pdf

• VA patients received about two-thirds of the care recommended by national standards, compared with about half in the national sample.

• Among chronic care patients, VA patients received about 70 percent of recommended care, compared with about 60 percent in the national sample.

• For preventive care, the difference was greater: VA patients received about 65 percent of recommended care, while patients in the national sample received 20 percent less.

• VA patients received consistently better care across the board, including screening, diagnosis, treatment, and follow-up.

• Quality of care for acute conditions—a performance area the VA did not measure—was similar for the two populations.

• The greatest differences between the VA and the national sample were for indicators where the VA was actively measuring performance and for indicators related to those on which performance was measured.


And this article claims that VA costs are stable, doing better than the HMO sorts:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...376238,00.html

We currently have a health care industry that goes to great lengths to avoid dealing with sick people.

The Rrs in Congress and in general don't have much to say about the recent proof we've gotten that the insurance industry in general is sorta whacked.

Talk about your entitlement mentality, these folks, along with bankers and too many doctors, operate on the assumption that 6, 7, and 8 figure incomes are rightfully theirs, and scaring those monies out of the public somehow is good and proper.

Don't look now, but we operate at a competitive disadvantage with most other nations in this regard. That's part of why our auto industry is struggling. Forcing small businesses to provide overly expensive health insurance to their employees has to inhibit their growth or even their founding.

Govt. as nanny? How about employer as nanny?
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Old 07-30-2009, 4:09 PM
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Are you kidding me?!

Conservatives of the US: Putting your fingers in your ears and humming loudly will not do in this case, nor in any other.

Right now we've got a series of big lies being fomented by business interests and their right wing allies concerning a number of topics, such as:

Obama care will be looking to euthanize old people who are in the way. Horrors!!!

And of course the ongoing nonsense: "Obama was born in Kenya!!!"

Hawaiia says he was born there. Local papers have microfische records of his family announcing his birth on the date specified. Oh yeah, I'm sure his mother had those planted because she wanted him to run for president someday.

And our health care costs are higher than any other advanced nation by a large margin. The Rr response? Obama is a Nazi who wants to kill off old people!

And you wonder why conservatives and Rrs are on the ropes.

Abandon your stuck ideology and think! Break new ground! Your country needs you!!!
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Old 07-30-2009, 4:42 PM
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Is ObamaCare going to switch 44 plus million to A Health Care? It's east to take care of a small, closed group. Are you suggesting opening the VA system to everyone? Or are you making a hyperbolic comparison?

The Military does lots of things efficiently. They have stellar policing. Shall we put us all under military policing?

Sorry we didn't jump to your nonsense when you first posted it. We'll try and jump a little faster next time.
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"A 3-4% growth in the GDP, as proudly advertised by the Bushies, is close to a NEGATIVE GROWTH when you consider that the inflation was at least or close to 3-4%."
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Old 07-30-2009, 6:24 PM
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Um yeah, someone I know who knows a guy who recently went to the VA not once, twice, but 3 times to see what was wrong with him. The VA did tests and stated nothing was really wrong. The guy didn't think that could be right since was not feelign well for awhile now and went to a private doctor where it was discovered he has prostate cancer. So the VA has its share of problems to say the least.
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Old 07-30-2009, 6:34 PM
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Is ObamaCare going to switch 44 plus million to A Health Care?


Read: ...to VA Health Care.

Stubs are a little slow today.
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From the Pawn Shop Bill School of VooDoo economics:

"A 3-4% growth in the GDP, as proudly advertised by the Bushies, is close to a NEGATIVE GROWTH when you consider that the inflation was at least or close to 3-4%."
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Old 07-30-2009, 6:45 PM
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What Orin said... Plus, the average of all medical care outside the VA includes such a broad spectrum (including the lowest levels to the highest), it loses its meaning to some extent, and doesn't assuage those of us whose medical care is now better than the VA provides.
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Old 07-30-2009, 7:12 PM
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Quote:
Irish Flu wrote: We currently have a health care industry that goes to great lengths to avoid dealing with sick people.

The Rrs in Congress and in general don't have much to say about the recent proof we've gotten that the insurance industry in general is sorta whacked.

Talk about your entitlement mentality, these folks, along with bankers and too many doctors, operate on the assumption that 6, 7, and 8 figure incomes are rightfully theirs, and scaring those monies out of the public somehow is good and proper.

Don't look now, but we operate at a competitive disadvantage with most other nations in this regard. That's part of why our auto industry is struggling. Forcing small businesses to provide overly expensive health insurance to their employees has to inhibit their growth or even their founding.

Govt. as nanny? How about employer as nanny?
Being a person who utilizes the VA, i respectfully disagree with their opinion of the VA. They get away with quite a bit, because, like military hospitals, they don't require the certifications for many positions that civilian hospitals do. There is also already an unavailbilty of drugs in a VA hospital that is not in civilian hospitals of pharmicies. Out of all the years I have been utilizing the VA, only two of my doctors were native born Americans.

As for your other comments. No, Obama isn't going to euthenize senior citizens, he will however put an independant and unaccountable board into place that will deny them care and access to certain lifesaving drugs. He will aslo put in a system that encourages people to "check out early"! Instead of the "Bypass operations they need, they will get the stints you hate.

The Insurance industrty is "whacked" because of the numerous State and Federal laws and regulations. I don't see Medicare supplemental insurance providers going out of business, it's Medicare, even though Medicare is subsidized!

Competitive disadvantage? Don't you think that was because the Union workers in the US companies get paid twice as much? Honda workers in the US don't get Socialized medicine. Neither do Toyota workers in the US. BTW, when Japan's government subsidizes Toyota, they don't fire the CEO.

Quote:
Irish flu wrote: And our health care costs are higher than any other advanced nation by a large margin. The Rr response? Obama is a Nazi who wants to kill off old people!
That is because WE DON'T RATION CARE! (Yet, wait for Obama!) As a percentage of GDP, the US does quite well, which proves that Health care costs aren't a big a drag on the economy as in the other "advanced ones".
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Old 07-30-2009, 8:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rifleman View Post
WE DON'T RATION CARE!


Of course the insurance companies ration care.
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Old 07-31-2009, 7:39 AM
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Routine GI health needs not met
By Gregg Zoroya, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON — The number of Army medical centers and clinics that provide timely access to routine medical care has hit a five-year low, Army records show, often forcing soldiers and their families to seek treatment off base.

About 16% of Army patients, particularly family members, can't get appointments with their primary physicians and are sent to doctors off the installation, according to the results of a nine-month Army review finished late last year. Some of those patients end up in emergency rooms or urgent care centers, says the study, which the Army provided to USA TODAY.

Army records show that 26 of its medical centers, hospitals and clinics are unable to meet the Pentagon standard requiring that 90% of patients get routine care appointments within seven days. Those are the worst results since the start of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. That's a 13% increase from 2005 in the number of medical facilities unable to meet the standard.

This year, the Army surgeon general, Lt. Gen. Eric Schoomaker, authorized 12 medical facilities with the worst access problems to hire more primary care doctors, says Col. Ken Canestrini, who's in charge of improving access to health care for soldiers and their families.

Although 85% of patients get in to see their doctors, Canestrini says, Army officials understand the others are unhappy about not receiving the access they want.

Some of the worst problems for access to care are at installations that house units doing some of the heaviest fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan, Army records show.

Six in 10 patients received on-time routine care in 2008 at the Fort Bragg, N.C., hospital, which has not met the routine care standard since 2005. Bragg is home to the 82nd Airborne Division and special operations forces that have been fighting in the two wars consistently.

Routine care makes up about 25% of all visits and includes issues such as chronic knee injuries or lower back pain.

The Army deserves a C— grade for access, says Sheila Casey, the wife of Gen. George Casey, the Army chief of staff. She regularly tours Army bases to meet with military spouses.

The Army doesn't have enough doctors to provide care both to families and soldiers at home and to those in combat, say Casey, Canestrini and Col. Jonathan Jaffin, the surgeon general's director of health policy and services.

Hospital commanders have overloaded their base physicians with too many patients, Canestrini says, so appointments to see doctors are quickly used up.

Schoomaker ordered the off-base medical visits to make it easier for families to receive care, even if it costs more, Jaffin says.



Find this article at:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/militar...reaccess_N.htm
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Old 07-31-2009, 9:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David View Post
[indent]Routine GI health needs not met
By Gregg Zoroya, USA TODAY
I think that's not VA medicine, but current military.

I know during the age of Clinton when I worked with medical instruments, I tried to call on physicians at Barksdale AFB but discovered they were outsourcing, privatizing as you will, a great deal of the care. They would purchase screening instruments, to test large number of people to see if they needed a more expensive test, but they didn't purchase the diagnostic equipment but outsourced a great deal of that.

So, perhaps more money needs to be provided to military physicians in-house and the experiment at outsourcing to private providers needs to end.
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Old 08-01-2009, 4:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orin View Post
Is ObamaCare going to switch 44 plus million to A Health Care? It's east to take care of a small, closed group. Are you suggesting opening the VA system to everyone? Or are you making a hyperbolic comparison?

The Military does lots of things efficiently. They have stellar policing. Shall we put us all under military policing?

Sorry we didn't jump to your nonsense when you first posted it. We'll try and jump a little faster next time.
Thank you. I expect cooperation here. And adulation.

I think we need a two or three tiered system where people of means are free to buy the best and speediest medical care they want. A VA-like system would be an improvement over virtually forcing employers to cover their employees health insurance with coverage that can be pulled for flimsy reasons. It would likely give the nation a healthier work force for a lower price than is paid now.

The profit motive works well for many enterprises but in health care, it has it's problems.

I'm sorry my info appears so weak to you but allow me to point out that Rand is not some hippie dippie outfit. The VA is an excellent example of how publicly funded health care can outperform private firms run by greedy executives looking to pay off their mulitple vacation homs and to maintain their fleet of exotic cars.
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Old 08-01-2009, 5:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Rifleman View Post
Being a person who utilizes the VA, i respectfully disagree with their opinion of the VA. They get away with quite a bit, because, like military hospitals, they don't require the certifications for many positions that civilian hospitals do. There is also already an unavailbilty of drugs in a VA hospital that is not in civilian hospitals of pharmicies. Out of all the years I have been utilizing the VA, only two of my doctors were native born Americans.

As for your other comments. No, Obama isn't going to euthenize senior citizens, he will however put an independant and unaccountable board into place that will deny them care and access to certain lifesaving drugs. He will aslo put in a system that encourages people to "check out early"! Instead of the "Bypass operations they need, they will get the stints you hate.

The Insurance industrty is "whacked" because of the numerous State and Federal laws and regulations. I don't see Medicare supplemental insurance providers going out of business, it's Medicare, even though Medicare is subsidized!

That is because WE DON'T RATION CARE! (Yet, wait for Obama!) As a percentage of GDP, the US does quite well, which proves that Health care costs aren't a big a drag on the economy as in the other "advanced ones".
I've been hearing too many well documented cases of Health Ins. companies looking for thin reasons to deny claims. Such as one woman who was denied treatment for breast cancer because she'd sought treatment for acne some years earlier and failed to mention that in her application.

I'm sure there will be problems in implementing any sort of public health care plan but fact is, our system is bankrupting us.

It's not govt. regs that push people into thinking that they're never going to die. Some of the end of life procedures we engage in are whacked out. I've already told the tale of how my dad was given one more week of life, in utter misery, and at great cost for a condition that was almost certainly fatal anyway.

But any talk of adopting better sense in this dept. is spun by the lobbyists for Big Pharma/Insurance as govt. mandated euthenasia.

Much, much lying propo going about on this one. Big Pharma/Insurance have DEEP pockets.
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Old 08-01-2009, 8:46 PM
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A buddy of mine from another forum who was SF in Somalia and elsewhere, suffered some serious injuries in Somalia. Here's what he had to say about the VA on a similar thread:

Being in the VA system I do agree with most of the findings but do not agree with peoples perception of the VA. Those being but not limited to:

1. Many of the doctors and specialist work very cheap or pro bono which may skew the numbers. A large number of the doctors and nurses are active duty or reservist that work for a fraction of what the private sector pays. In many cases I think that the doctors and nurses are superior to their civilian counterparts simply because they have brains and a sense of servitude also many finish out their careers in the VA system so the experience level is much higher than the civilian system.

2. The VA is not a "public" system, its a system for people who have served in the US military and their dependents, just like a company sponsored HMO

3. The VA does not have to deal with the legal system like private hospitals.


This actually makes me think that maybe the VA model wouldn't translate all that well to the full public. Much of the problem, IMHO, with current systems, Medicare and for profit, stems from corrupt doctors and administrators.

If my buddy is correct, and I and most everyone else (including other retired military) on the other site take him as the real deal, the honesty level among them at the VA is higher than in the nation at large.

But, the issue is before us: the status quo in our medical system is bankrupting us and making us uncompetitive with other advanced nations. What are we going to do about that?
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Old 08-02-2009, 11:41 AM
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Does the VA have the best doctors or are they they types that weren't quite good enough to have their own practice? That is something I'd like to know. Long waits at the VA are common too.
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