Toyota Suspending Sales of Most Vehicles

[David]

Wow! For a company that lives off reliability this stings. Can you imagine the atmosphere at dealerships at the moment?

Toyota Expands Recall – 8 Models Off The Lots

SOURCE

[schaabdl]

I have a 2010 Camry LE and have noticed nothing wrong with the accelerator (25,000 miles in the first 6 months). The floor mat was a stupid idea so I think I will continue to wait until they determine the cause (they were originally shortening the pedal when the thought was the mat).
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I was convinced by other Toyota owners to try them and went with the Camry but quality wise I give it C- with a number of details that just are irksome. Back to Nissan for me.

[Hawkscall]

I have a 2005 Toyota Corolla LE. Love it. No roblems with the accelarator pedal. Nothing wrong with it. C

[David]

I wonder if vehicles built in Japan have the same problems? The vehicles affected by the problem were all built in the US. Is it a fleet wide engineering error or poor assembly guidelines in the US factories? If this sounds like a lame question I apologize. Just looking for answers.

[schaabdl]

Interesting thought - my 2010 Camry has a US-built VIN (4T---) -- the Toyota announcement is strange "certain Camry models" whereas the other the other seven simply list the models but doesn't indicate anything else. I think Toyota is as confused as others at this time.

[jtdc]

Originally Posted by David

I wonder if vehicles built in Japan have the same problems?

No! Only the U.S manufactured cars are affected. They claim it is a defective part manufactured by an American supplier. I can't remember the name and state.

Their problem seems to be the cost of replacing the part and getting the problem in the part fixed.

What disturbs me is that they have blamed the floor mat when there was apparently indications of a mechanical problem. That, to me, losses some credibility for them.

[Hawkscall]

What about just throwing the mat away, and getting a shorter mat from another model???? Does that not solve the question???

C

[jtdc]

Originally Posted by annett

What about just throwing the mat away, and getting a shorter mat from another model???? Does that not solve the question???

It's the throttle assembly, not the mat. The mat was an excuse to divert attention from the real problem. Apparently this problem has been known for a couple of years. The U.S. government had to force the recall. That doesn't speak highly of Toyota. But then it is in business to make money. Recall loses money. Until somebody got killed, it was cheaper to ignore the problem. They might have to replace the parts in 10 years of vehicles. How much do you think that will cost them? This is how unfettered capitalism works, so I am told. Competition will keep them honest.

[Orin]

Apparently this problem has been known for a couple of years.

By whom? The Government or Toyota? Both? How long has the government known about it and not told? These things would be nice to know before we blame Toyota solely and laud more regulation on top of regulation that may not have regulated like it was supposed to. Please, fill us in.

[jtdc]

Originally Posted by Orin

By whom? The Government or Toyota?

Toyota! Most of what I heard I'll have to class as Hersey, as I have watched stories on local news and national news and can't recall what I heard where. Local stations interviewed local dealers and customers. One customer said his peddle went down and he hit something like a post. No injuries or deaths in that. The "floormat" recall began only after a deadly crash of a CHP officer and his family. The question is was that an accelerator problem or a floormat problem? One of the stories said that after a floormat removal the problem happened again. One of the stories said Toyota has been looking into this problem for at least two years.

Toyota says the problem part is manufactured by a supplier in Elkhart Indiana. Only American made cars are affected. Cars with a VIN starting with "JT" are made in Japan and are not affected.

[David]

Yep. US Supplier. Why did I expect that to be the case? Pretty sad that that was my expectation.

SOURCE

[schaabdl]

I wouldn't be on the supplier's back just yet. They also supply the same part for Nissan, some Ford, and others - not recalling seeing issues on sudden acceleration. There is also the potential of a software glitch at least with Toyota.
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Leave to Congress to call for an investigation - 19 sudden acceleration reports over 3 years (how many million vehichles sold and vehicle miles driven and this needs an investigation?). Toyota is showing the proper response as a corporation having a black eye.
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It does appear that there are two separate issues. There is a floor mat issue with some (I saw some pictures that showed a different style than mine).

[Hawkscall]

My Corolla is a 2005 - wonderful car. And, its VIN number begins with JTD.
So nothing to worry about. Thanks for that info. C

[David]

Toyota recalls undermine Japanese confidence in an industrial titan
Recalls in the U.S., China and Europe have had a sickening effect on the national psyche in Japan.

SOURCE

[jtdc]

Originally Posted by schaabdl

They also supply the same part for Nissan, some Ford, and others - not recalling seeing issues on sudden acceleration. There is also the potential of a software glitch at least with Toyota.

So is this Toyota trying to distract from the real problem again?

Originally Posted by schaabdl

It does appear that there are two separate issues. There is a floor mat issue with some (I saw some pictures that showed a different style than mine).

The biggest problem is uneducated drivers. I have heard two solutions over the years. The original was shifting to neutral. This could waste the engine, except with diesels which are governed. In many later models the shifter cannot be easily moved from drive to neutral. The other is turning off the ignition. The complaint here is the loss of power steering, and thus loss of control of the car.

In one of the accidents investigators said there was no indication of the brakes being applied. That's pure panic. We've turned too much of our society over to automation. And people have lost the skills needed to operate a vehicle. This last week a local driver blew a read tire and hit the brakes. The car flipped killing at least one of the occupants. I blew a front tire at 70 and slowed the car down with no loss of control. But then I had lots of driving experience. But it was a matter of pre conditioning. Like Sully bringing that plane down in the Potomac. He had trained in flight simulators and had years of actual experience. he knew what to do before the emergency happened.

Originally Posted by Hawkscall

And, its VIN number begins with JTD.
So nothing to worry about. Thanks for that info. C

Glad to help you sleep better.

[schaabdl]

jtdc: My step-dad worked many years as a parametic in a volunteer fire department in Missouri. Consequently he had a number of stories from accidents. He was convinced that many of the "unexplained" acceleration issues noted at accidents were exactly as you said - panic. Later, with the advent of cruise control it was a matter of the cruise control still engaged meaning neither the brake nor, if applicable, clutch depressed.
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One thing I've learned with the my newest Nissan (2007) and now my Camry (2010) is that issue of power steering is less than some of the original / older models where steering was essentially zero without power. It is still difficult but I recall a sudden loss of power with the Nissan (battery fully discharged) but was able to bring the car safely to the side of the rode with little struggle. I purposely turned of the engine on the Toyota to see what the steering response was and again, safely to the side of the road. But, like you, years of driving and a little at higher speeds on the track.
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It appears Toyota is replacing the part but I also saw a note somewher that there will be a software patch loaded as well. I don't think Toyota tried to hide anything. In fact, I think we may see heads role AFTER the issue resolved - just seems to be the Japanese way.

[jtdc]

Originally Posted by schaabdl

One thing I've learned with the my newest Nissan (2007) and now my Camry (2010) is that issue of power steering is less than some of the original / older models where steering was essentially zero without power.

I have a 1977 250 Econoline. I installed a 4 Cyl diesel. But I couldn't fit the power steering pump for several years. But I and my ex drove it all that time with no problems. One day the vacuum pump went out killing the power brakes. When I hit the brakes, my heart skipped a beat. But pressing hard I still had control, and drive it for a couple more days until I replaced the pump. Like you say, some systems are designed with no bypass. Those are very dangerous IMHO.

Originally Posted by schaabdl

It appears Toyota is replacing the part but I also saw a note somewher that there will be a software patch loaded as well. I don't think Toyota tried to hide anything. In fact, I think we may see heads role AFTER the issue resolved - just seems to be the Japanese way.

I see it is a "flight-to-wire" system. Ever had your computer mouse go haywire? I still prefer mechanical systems, on planes as well as cars.

Another thing about the supplier, from David's link, is that the assembly is made to Toyota's specifications. You said "They also supply the same part for Nissan, some Ford, and others - not recalling seeing issues on sudden acceleration." But I don't think it is the same part. And Toyota doesn't seem to be pointing the finger at the supplier, just that they came from that supplier.

[schaabdl]

jtdc: Good point - missed the "Toyota specification"

[David]

Now problems with the brakes on the Prius.
Ouch. That must leave a mark. Prius owners tend to be elitists. Now they find their precious vehicles may be defective.

I wonder how big a hit Toyota is taking? We are now told Ford is more reliable. Interesting.

[David]

LaHood says he misspoke on advice to Toyota owners
Wednesday, February 3, 2010
(02-03) 10:13 PST WASHINGTON, (AP) --

Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood now says he misspoke when telling owners of recalled Toyotas to stop driving then.

Instead, LaHood says take them to dealerships to get them repaired.

LaHood told reporters it was "obviously a misstatement" when he told a House panel earlier Wednesday that he would advise owners not to drive recalled vehicles. The remark came during testimony to the Appropriations subcommittee on transportation.

Toyota's most recent recall in the United States affects 2.3 million vehicles with the potential for sticking gas pedals.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...f134604S75.DTL